Rock-Ola 445 receiver wiring with 1765 / 1765-2

Hello,

I am restoring a Rock-Ola 445 jukebox and I am trying to understand the original receiver connection used with a wallbox.

I already have:

* the complete Rock-Ola 445 service manual
* the complete Rock-Ola 1765 receiver manual
* photos of adapter harnesses 2131/32 and 2145

From the documentation, it appears that the 2131/32 and 2145 are only wiring adapter harnesses.

I am looking for any information showing the actual connection between a Rock-Ola 445 and a 1765/1765-2 (or 1767 / 1769) receiver:

* wiring diagram
* pinout of the 9-pin receiver connector
* pinout of the 12-pin receiver connector
* photos of an installed receiver
* photos of the adapter harness wiring

Even a few photos of a working installation would be extremely helpful.

Thank you very much for any information.
PatLen

Additional information:

While comparing the receiver documentation with the jukebox schematics, I found that many functions appear to be common between the receiver and the jukebox itself.

Examples include:

* Stop Relay
* Write-In Relay
* Accumulator Reset Coil

I have also identified most of the 12-pin receiver connector connections:

* AC supply from the signal transformer
* Common
* 25 VAC
* -28/-30 VDC
* Stop Relay related connections

This suggests that the receiver is not operating independently, but is interacting directly with the jukebox Stop Relay and Write-In circuits.

Can anyone confirm this interpretation from an actual installation, wiring diagram, or service experience?

Any photos showing the receiver wiring connected to the jukebox would be especially helpful.

Thank you.
PatLen

Ich bin nicht sicher ob das was du da vor hast überhaupt funktioniert da in die 445 eigentlich der 1767 Stepper gehört . Da sind dann auch die Kabel lang genug was bei der Höhe des Gerätes nicht unerheblich ist . Der Stepper wird unter die Maschine gebaut und die Anschlusskabel müssen hoch bis zum Netzteil . Das ist ein ganz schön langer weg , dementsprechend lang sind die Kabel . Da seh ich beim 1765 schon Probleme .

Hello Swen,

Thank you for your reply.

I am not actually planning to install a 1765 receiver in a Rock-Ola 445.

My goal is to understand how the Rock-Ola 17xx receivers were connected and operated, so that I can reproduce the receiver logic electronically.

I already have the complete 1765 receiver documentation and I am currently comparing it with the Rock-Ola 445 schematics.

What I have found so far is that many circuits seem to be common between the receiver and the jukebox itself, including:

* Stop Relay
* Write-In Relay
* Accumulator Reset Coil

I have also identified most of the connections on the receiver connectors and I am trying to understand how the receiver interacts with the jukebox during the write-in cycle.

Do you know if the 1767 differs significantly from the 1765 electrically, or is it mainly a mechanical/installation difference with longer wiring harnesses for the 445?

Any information about the wiring or operation of the 1767 would be greatly appreciated.

Best regards,
PatLen

[www.jukebox-world.de]

[www.jukebox-world.de]

Die Adapter Stecker die womöglich nur benötigt werden damit ein 1765 in der 445 funktioniert sind ja ein Thema für sich . Ich würde erst einmal den Richtigen Stepper also den 1767 analysieren . Da passen dann die Stecker und man muss zumindest da schon nicht Raten was eventuell ein Adapter genau macht .

Leider ist viel Wissen rund um Stepper verloren gegangen . Gerade was die Verwendung und Adapter angeht . Oder welcher Stepper mit welchen leichten Modifikationen dann doch in anderen Boxen auch funktioniert bzw. welcher Fernwähler mit welchen Einschränkungen an einen eigentlich nicht dafür passenden Stepper funktioniert . Wenn du den Links folgst steht da ja auch ein bisschen Infotext bei . Für den 1767 steht geschrieben das auch der 3W1 daran funktionieren soll . Bei dem 1765 steht das nicht dabei . Demnach müsste der 1765 eine ander Impulsfolge haben als der 1767 . Diese Annahme unterstützt auch der Archiv Eintrag für den 505F Fernwähler da hier der 1767 als passender Stepper angegeben ist während für den 504 der 1765-2 und für den 501 der 1765 angegeben ist .

Man müsste also alle drei Analysieren um dann sagen zu können ob Unterschiede durch Adapter oder Zusatzkabel zu lösen sind oder ob das ganze schon allein von der Impulsvergabe der Fernwähler sich nicht zusammen fassen lässt .

Ein spannendes Projekt aber mit viel Archiv Arbeit verbunden . Möchtest du dein Projekt mal genauer erklären ? Stepper Nachbau via z.B. Rasperry Pi für Verwendung mit Handy via App als Fernwähler könnte ich mir vorstellen . Vielleicht Unterstützen dich dann ein paar Leute mit ihrem Wissen wobei das Know How über Fernwähler /Stepper bei den meisten so gut wie garnicht vorhanden ist und sich wenn meistens auf 50er Jahre Geräte Beschränkt . Ist bei mir nicht anders , das spielt einfach eine Untergeordnete Rolle weil nicht oft danach gefragt wird . Dementsprechend ist man im Thema einfach nicht Tief genug drin .

Schöne Idee aber nicht ganz leicht umzusetzten. Zuerst solltest du prüfen ob alle erforderlichen Steckverbinder erhältlich sind. Der Stepper wird zwischen Tastatur und Selektor eingeschleift, die Kontakte der Schrittschalter erzeugen am Selektor die Kodierung wie von der Tastatur. In den Schaltbildern der Jukebox sind zur besseren Übersicht nicht alle Verbindungen zwischen Tastatur und Selektor eingezeichnet, ein Gesamtschaltbild des Steppers habe ich bisher noch nie gesehen. Die anderen Steckverbinder dienen zur Steuerung des Ablaufs der Wahl. In den funktionalen Schaltbildern der Jukebox sind diese Verbindungen als Brücken R-R eingezeichnet, im Gesamtschaltbild muss man diese Signale dann zu den Steckverbindern verfolgen um das Pinout herauszufinden. In den Schaltplänen im Steppermanual sind wiederum Komponenten eingezeichnet die sich aber in der Jukebox befinden, z.B. Stop Relais etc. Funktionen wie Abschaltung der Wallbox Lausprecher sind oft nicht dokumentiert. In vielen Plänen ist nicht ersichtlich ob Kontakte NO oder NC sind. Machbar, aber viel Reverse Engineering.
Gruss Jürgen

Thank you for your comments.

After studying the 1765 documentation, I am starting to believe that the operating sequences are probably very similar between the different Rock-Ola receivers.

What I am now trying to understand are the actual electrical and wiring differences between:

* 1765
* 1765-2
* 1767
* 1768
* 1769

Does anyone have:

* a schematic of a 1767, 1768 or 1769 receiver?
* installation instructions?
* connector pinouts?
* parts lists?
* photos of the internal wiring?

I am especially interested in understanding what changed between these receiver generations and whether the differences are mainly:

* wiring harnesses / adapters
* connector assignments
* wallbox compatibility
* or actual circuit changes.

Any documentation or photos would be extremely helpful.

One additional question:

Has anyone ever compared the 1765 and 1767 receivers side by side?

Are the differences mainly mechanical (installation and harness length), or are there significant electrical differences between them?

Thank you.
PatLen

I think you don't need to analyze the function of the mechanical stepper and adapter wirings in all details to build an electronic version. Wallbox compatibility will be solved anyway in software. It's easier to understand the Jukebox write-in flow and how you can remotely exercise the flow through the keyboard connector and the R-R contacts. The flow is the same on all RO models with this mechanism, so basically remote selection would work like this:
1. Receive and decode the wallbox pulses
2. Disconnect Accumulator Reset coil in the Jukebox to make sure no credit is removed and subseqent write-in operation is prevented on Jukebox side.
3. Prepare selector contacts based on the received code
4. Connect the write-in Motor to 25VAC
5. Wait for stop relais to turn on
6. Apply 28VDC pulse to energize A or B write-in coil to move selection lever
7. Reset all circuits - disconnect write-in motor and stop relais, reconnect Accumulator Reset Coil to allow further selections on Jukebox side.
Since the hardware design is not trivial, I think I would not want to spend the effort for just one RO model and one Wallbox model but rather build a universal hardware that can be configured by software and soldering the appropriate adapter cables for different Jukeboxes and Wallboxes. Serial I/O for the later digital ROs could ne added. BT receiver and App for the young generation

Just some thoughts - I have no plan to work on this, however I could contribute schematic and software for the wallbox decoding from my 507 MP3 project (Arduino).
Rgds Jürgen

Here you have the schematic of a 1796 stepper.
If the scan is not clear enough I can send you a higher resolution one.

Success,

Albert

Hi Albert,

Thank you very much, this is very helpful.

The scan is good enough to understand the general stepper/write-in architecture, but for tracing wire colors, terminal numbers and connector functions, a higher resolution version would be very useful.

If possible, please send the highest resolution scan you have.

Best regards,
Patrick

Hi Jurgen,

Thank you very much for your explanation and for offering to share the wallbox decoding part from your 507 MP3 Arduino project. That could be very useful for us.

Our future concept is not to reproduce the original mechanical stepper in every detail, but to build a more modern electronic system.

The idea is to use an ESP32 with a 480x480 touchscreen as the wallbox/user interface. This unit would communicate with another ESP32 installed inside the Rock-Ola 445. The ESP32 inside the jukebox would then handle the selection/write-in process.

At this stage we are still studying the best way to interface safely with the 445, but the general direction is a modern ESP32-based system with software handling the wallbox compatibility.

Best regards,
Patrick

Hello Patrick,
my decoder will not help you. It decodes the pulses from the wallbox into 1 of 160 filenumbers to be played on the Mp3 player.
In your project, you can decode the remote selection directly to the code on the selector disc (see page 17 in the manual for 160 selections). Check this board for the Rx side: "Wadakada 32 Channel Relay Development Board". You will need 8 channels for the Numbers (Segment 1..8) , 10 channels for the Letters A/B...Y/V and 2 channels to turn on the A/B write-in coils. The remaining channels should be enough to control the write-in sequence. For the transmission between Rx and Tx side you can use any data format you like, even BT or WLAN is supported on some ESP32 boards. Your biggest problem will be to figure out the connector pin numbers. The functional schematics in the Jukebox- and Steppermanuals are good for understanding the operation through the sequence diagrams and include the remote control wires (R-R), however they do not show the connectors. On the other side, the large wiring diagrams available for the Jukeboxes show the connectors but not the R-R labels. For the Steppers, I have never seen a wiring diagram, not sure if they exist.
Best regards and good luck for your project
Jürgen



1 mal bearbeitet. Zuletzt am 25.06.26 10:49.

Hello Jürgen,

Thank you for your explanation, it helps a lot.

I have one question about the relay approach. Maybe I misunderstood your idea.

On my Rock-Ola 445, we have 100 selections, so in a simple approach we could simulate the keyboard/selector contacts with something like 10 letter lines and 10 number lines.

But in our concept, the ESP32 wallbox interface already knows the final selection code, for example A1, B7, K0, etc. So I am wondering why we should simulate the whole keyboard matrix with many relays, instead of sending the final code directly to the ESP32 inside the jukebox.

The ESP32 inside the 445 could then translate this final code into the required write-in code and inject it at the most suitable point in the jukebox write-in flow, while still letting the original K3 Write-In Relay and K4 Stop Relay perform the normal mechanical cycle.

In other words, instead of:

Wallbox code → simulate keyboard contacts → jukebox rebuilds the selection code

we are thinking about:

Wallbox code → ESP32 sends final selection A1/K0/etc. → receiver-side ESP32 presents the final selector/write-in code to the jukebox

This should reduce the number of contacts/relais needed, provided that we can find the correct injection point in the 445 write-in circuit.

Do you think this approach is valid, or is there a reason why the keyboard/selector matrix still needs to be simulated completely?

Best regards,
Patrick

Sorry my fault, I thought the 445 has 160 selections and the 444 has 100 - but it`s the other way around.
Both versions share the same manual, you need to look at the "100 selection schematic".
You cannot access the keys directly, each key has more than one contact level to generate the "code" that is used on the selection disc.
The 100 selection version has 5 segments for 10 numbers (1/2....9/0) and 10 stop positions in each segment. In total there are 50 stop positions (for 50 records). A/B side is selected by switching inner or outer selector lever. I think you need 5+10+2 Relays and a few more for control.
Rgds Jürgen

Thank you very much, this makes things much clearer.

You are right, I was thinking too much in terms of “keyboard emulation”, but the important point is the final code generated for the write-in selector disc.

For the Rock-Ola 445, I now understand the idea as:

* 5 segment lines for number pairs: 1/2, 3/4, 5/6, 7/8, 9/0
* 10 stop positions
* 2 lines for A/B side, inner or outer selector lever
* then the normal write-in sequence can be started and the original K3 Write-In Relay and K4 Stop Relay can do their job.

So the ESP32 wallbox can still send a simple selection like A1 or K0, but the ESP32 inside the jukebox must translate it into the 5 + 10 + 2 selector/write-in code.

One last question: in your opinion, what would be the best physical injection point for this code on the jukebox side?

Should it be injected close to the write-in printed circuit disc / selector disc wiring, or closer to the pushbutton assembly / R-R receiver wires?

Also, do you know if there is a practical table somewhere showing the 100-selection mapping, for example A1 → segment + stop position + A/B side?

Thank you again for your help, it is very useful for understanding the correct direction.

Best regards,
Patrick

Hello Patrick,
Code Table:
You can "read" the table from the title glass.
-Left column Numbers 1/2 and so on...
-Upper half titles stop positions 1..5 , lower half 6-10
-Odd rows A-Side , Even Rows B-Side
Injection point:
I would try to use the connectors - same as with the mechanical steppers
Write In-Flow:
The original remote interface is designed to support separate credit systems, one in the wallbox, one in the jukebox, please see the flow I have suggested earlier. In your project, I think you don`t need this feature which could makes things a bit easier. I don`t oversee if its possible to just turn on the write-in relay and "let the box do it`s job" because the keyboards lock-bar-switches and latch-switches won`t be operated. I think you need to study the flow in more detail or just grab a bunch of wires and try it out with one selection.

Best regards...Jürgen

Hello Albert,

Thank you again for the 1769 stepper schematic you already sent.

After discussing the project further, we think the most useful document for us would be the electrical wiring diagram of the 1769 stepper, especially the part showing the connector outputs going to the jukebox.

If you have it, could you please send a clear copy or high-resolution scan of the 1769 wiring diagram?

We are particularly interested in the signals leaving the 12 circuit M-N-L connector towards the jukebox: wire colors, pin numbers and functions if they are shown.

This would help us understand how the original stepper interfaces with the Rock-Ola 445, and compare it with the 9-pin and 12-pin receiver connectors on my machine.

Thank you very much for your help.

Best regards,
Patrick

Hello Albert,

Just a quick update: you can forget my previous request for the 1769 schematic.

I finally found the Rock-Ola 1769 Receiver Unit manual available for download, so I bought it and now have the complete document.

Thank you very much for your help and for the schematic you already sent earlier. It was very useful and helped us confirm that we were looking in the right direction.

Best regards,
Patrick

Hello Patrick,
does the manual you bought include a wiring diagram with connectors?

Yesterday, we had 40degC outside temperature here in Munich, ideal to do some "brain training" in my cool basement. I looked at my 3 RO`s (1484, 434, 469) receiver interfaces.

First thing I noted, all 3 have the same 9 pin connector and wire colors, I am assuming it`s the same on 444/445 but I could not check. The second connector is different: 8 pin round on 1484, 8 pin square on 434 and 12 pin square on 469. This connector carries power supply lines and wires to the write in motor. I also traced down the pinouts of the 9-pin and the 21-pin Jones connector on the wiring diagram of the 1484.
I now believe, that one could do a "simplified" remote write-in by (ab)using the 9-pin connector and "injecting" the code on the 21-pin Jones connector - see picture (red lines is remote stuff/hope it´s clear enough)
"Simplified" means that credit is taken from the jukebox credit counter and there is no blocking of keyboard selections during remote selections and vice versa.

Simplified Remote Write-In Flow:
1) Receive and decode selection
2) "Inject code" through 5 Segment Relays, 10 Stop-position Relays and 2 A/B Relays
3) Turn on Remote Write-In-Relay
4) "Let the Box do it's job", keyboard latch-pawl and lock-switches should not be a problem
There is one important point here: The pulse length for the write in pulse in normal operation is determined by the ADR delay, the current flow is interrupted when the stop-relay is turned off by a contact of the write-in relay - see picture (1)->(2)->(3). The "injection" is bypassing this write-in relay contact (2), so the stop-relay would be on "forever" and the write-in coils will blow. You will need to inform the CPU when the Stop occurred for making the reset. The feedback can be done through an additional relay or optocoupler for isolation.
5) Detect Stop condition, after some delay let's say 500ms, turn off all remote selection relays.

Just my thoughts, check it out for 445, if you find a better solution please let me know. Or try it out at your own risk - plan for some spare relays in case I overlooked something

Best regards...Jürgen

Hello Jürgen,

The weather here is hot and stormy, 39°C. Fortunately my house is air-conditioned, so I can think quietly and clearly.

Thank you very much for your detailed analysis. Your “simplified remote write-in” approach is very interesting and it is very close to the direction we are now considering.

I bought the complete Rock-Ola 1769 Receiver Unit manual. It includes the functional schematic and sequence diagrams, but not a full adapter wiring diagram clearly showing the connector-to-connector harness for the 445. So we have been reconstructing the 445 receiver interface by wire colors and functions.

On my Rock-Ola 445, we have now identified the receiver connectors quite well:

* the 9-pin receiver connector has the same kind of jumper logic you described;
* the 12-pin receiver connector carries power supply lines and several K3/K4-related feedback or control points;
* K4-4 is available on the 12-pin receiver connector, with RED and BLU wires.

So your warning about the Stop condition is very important. We agree that if the injected selection bypasses the normal write-in relay contact timing, the Stop Relay or write-in coils could remain energized too long. Therefore, in our ESP32 receiver concept, K4-4 should be used as the STOP feedback to the CPU, through an optocoupler or isolated relay input.

The planned simplified sequence would be:

1. Decode the selection in the ESP32.
2. Inject the selector code using 5 segment outputs, 10 stop-position outputs and 2 A/B outputs.
3. Activate the remote write-in function through the receiver interface.
4. Wait for K4-4 / STOP feedback.
5. After STOP is detected, wait a short delay, about 500 ms as you suggested.
6. Release all remote relays.

This seems much safer than leaving the remote write-in active for a fixed time without feedback.

I will now check how this simplified method maps specifically to the 445 wiring before trying anything on the machine.

Thank you again for your help and your very useful “brain training” session!

Best regards,
Patrick

Hello Patrick, I don`t see the advantage of using K4-4 for Stop Feedback from the 12-pin connector.
Don`t you have K4-1 at the 9-pin connector anyway to switch the write-in coils ?
Regards Jürgen

Hello Jürgen,

You are right to ask the question.

On my 445, according to the wiring we have traced so far, K4-1 does not seem to be available on the 9-pin receiver connector.

The 9-pin connector has the jumper functions for write-in / stop relay / accumulator reset / ground return, but K4-1 appears on the 12-pin receiver connector:

* 12-pin pin 9 = BLU-YEL = K4-1 line
* 12-pin pin 7 RED and pin 8 BLU = K4-4 contact

So I was thinking about using K4-4 because it looks like a clean isolated feedback contact from the Stop Relay, separate from the write-in coil current path. It should allow the ESP32 to detect “Stop occurred” without touching the K4-1 / write-in coil circuit.

Maybe on your 1484 / 434 / 469 the 9-pin connector gives access to a different K4 contact, or maybe I misunderstood your point.

On the 445, my current understanding is:

* use the 9-pin connector to control the simplified remote write-in functions;
* inject the selector code through the selector/Jones connector;
* use K4-4 on the 12-pin connector only as Stop feedback to the CPU;
* then release all remote relays after a short delay.

Does this make sense to you, or do you think monitoring K4-1 would still be better even if it is on the 12-pin connector and part of the write-in coil path?

Best regards,
Patrick

Hello Patrick,
I was just curious why K4-1 is not available on the 9pin connector. So if you need to use the 12pin connector anyway, it`s easier to use the potential free contact K4-4.
Best regards Jürgen

PS:
With a fresh head and lower temperatures this morning, I was wondering why on earth RO would make such a significant change to the connector pinouts. The answer is that I made a mistake in my tracing job. Instead of using 3/9 (orange/black), it should be 4/6 (grey/red) to be used for powering the write-in coils through the A/B remote relays. It can be used also as the STOP feedback to the CPU and you don`t have to use the 12-pin connector at all - I guess. Please check if it works for the 445.
I corrected the picture in my earlier post.
Best regards Jürgen



1 mal bearbeitet. Zuletzt am 28.06.26 08:23.

Hello Jürgen,

Thank you for the correction. I understand your point about trying to avoid the 12-pin connector if the 9-pin connector can provide the required write-in path and STOP feedback.

I will attach the Power Distribution & Write-In Unit schematic of my Rock-Ola 445 so you can see the exact wiring we are looking at.

On my 445, the 9-pin receiver connector is traced as follows:

* pin 1 TAN-GRN ↔ pin 3 BLK
* pin 6 RED-BLK ↔ pin 4 RED-WHT
* pin 9 PINK-WHT ↔ pin 7 YEL-RED
* pin 8 GRY-RED ↔ pin 2 GRY

The important point is that on the 445, GRY-RED is pin 8 of the 9-pin receiver connector. One branch of this GRY-RED line goes to the Stop Relay K4 coil, terminal 13.

So I think your corrected 4/6 grey-red path may not map directly to my 445 pinout, or Rock-Ola may have changed the adapter wiring between models.

Also, on the 445 schematic, K4-1 appears to be related to the 12-pin receiver connector:

* 12-pin pin 9 = BLU-YEL = K4-1 line
* 12-pin pin 12 = PINK = -33 VDC
* 12-pin pins 7 RED and 8 BLU = K4-4 potential-free contact

That is why I was considering K4-4 for the CPU STOP feedback. It seems to be a clean isolated contact, while K4-1 is part of the -33 VDC / write-in circuit.

I will compare your corrected picture again with the 445 schematic, but at the moment I do not see the same 4/6 grey-red arrangement on my 445.

Best regards,
Patrick

Hard to read on your copy, but I think it's the K4-1 NO pin that goes with a grey-red wire to the 9-pin connector. This is the one to power the reset-coil, wobbleplate solenoid and write-in coil at STOP. I just double checked this on the 469 wiring diagram and found that the numbering of the pins I used on my drawing do not match, however the colors and functions seem to be always identical. I guess I just counted wrong, the 1484 plan I used had no pin numers.

Yel-red write in relais 7/9
Red-blck stop relais 4/6
Grey-red K4-1.NO 2/8

Regards Jürgen

Hello Jürgen,

Thank you, that makes sense now.

I agree with your explanation: the pin numbers may differ between models or drawings, but the wire colors and functions seem to match much better.

For my 445, I now understand the 9-pin receiver connector this way:

* YEL-RED / PINK-WHT = Write-In Relay path
* RED-BLK / RED-WHT = Stop Relay path
* GRY-RED / GRY = K4-1 NO / STOP feed path for reset coil, wobble plate solenoid and write-in coil

So yes, the GRY-RED / GRY path could probably be used as a STOP feedback if I wanted to keep everything on the 9-pin connector.

However, for the ESP32 input safety, I think I will still use K4-4 from the 12-pin connector as STOP feedback. On the 445 it is available as RED / BLU and appears to be a potential-free contact. This should be easier and safer to isolate with an optocoupler, without touching the active K4-1 write-in coil path.

So the idea would be:

* use the 9-pin connector for the remote write-in functions;
* use the selector/Jones area for code injection;
* use K4-4 only as isolated STOP feedback to the CPU;
* then release the remote relays after STOP detection.

Thank you again, your correction helped a lot to understand the real function of the GRY-RED line.

Best regards,
Patrick

Ok, I think we are at the same page now.
Have fun with your project.
I also learned a lot about RO's Stepper interfaces.
Best regards Jürgen

Good, then we finally agree on the same logic.

For the 445, I will keep the 9-pin connector for the remote write-in side, and use K4-4 on the 12-pin connector only as a clean STOP feedback for the ESP32.

That should keep the CPU away from the active K4-1 write-in circuit.

Thanks for the cross-check.

Regards,
Patrick