nsm 160 b

Quote
dj siepel
I've measured again and got 157 volts. I'm measuring that on the green and yellow wires to ground, and also between them.

Your measurements make still no sense to me. You should see around 100VAC across the coil when it is powered. When making measurements to Ground, you should be aware that the yellow wire is 150VDC above the Ground potential due to the voltage doubler which is used to generate the write-in and read-out voltages. The yellow wire is marked in the schematic as "0" at the transformer - this is not Ground! The coil is operated from the 100VAC transformer tap. For DC coils, I would expect around 80VDC depending on the values of the resistor and capacitor.

Rgds..Jürgen

Hi,

I think, ronny is right.
DJ has to use the solenoid with two black wires and approximately 850 Ohm (the AC one).
I´m a bit confused if he has allready tried this...
and doublechecking the meaurements jürgen mentioned above can´t hurt ether.

Hello everyone

Sorry for the bad Google Translate translation

I have now installed a solenoid with 2 black wires (865 ohms)

It still doesn't work. I have now measured in standby mode; I measure 152 volts on green to ground and also for yellow.

If I select "in operation," I measure the same 152 volts on the green and yellow wires.

So there is a constant 152 volts on both wires where the solenoid is located.

I really have no idea why.

Kind regards, dj

Hello dj,
can you show a picture of your meter reading and meter setting? As I showed you on the picture, there is a DC voltage of 150V between ground and yellow / green, I think this is what you see.
You should measure the AC voltage between yellow and green. Connect one probe to pin 1 of the carriage connector (yellow). With the other probe, you can check the green wire all the way to LPII. Check pin2 and pin4 on LPII, they should read around 100VAC when relay contact mr1 is closed.
Rgds..Jürgen

Hello

That 152 volts is indeed DC.

I performed a new measurement and, as you indicated, from the yellow carriage connector to pin 2 and pin 4 on LP2 it gives 0 volts.

See photo

Kind regards

At least, we could clarify the DC voltage issue so far.
Now the question is why you have no AC voltage at the coil.
I would take the following approach:
1) Make sure you have 100V AC at LPII --> measure AC voltage between LPII/Pin2 and LPIII/Pin2.
2) Confirm that the wiring to the coil is ok --> measure resistance between LPII/Pin4 and LPIII/Pin2
(power off, scan switch closed). You should see your coil resistance (865Ohm) when all wiring is ok.
If both measurements are ok, the coil should work when the motor relais contact mr1 is closing. (LPII/Pin4 switched to 100V AC)
Rgds..Jürgen

Good morning Jürgen 02

1) lp2/pin2 to lp3/pin 2 gives 2 volts

2) Which is the scan switch and the photo from the previous message, the relay M1, is it closed?

Regards

1) lp2/pin2 to lp3/pin 2 gives 2 volts

There are so many different versions of the wiring diagram, please check on your wiring diagram if lp2/pin2 goes to the transformer 100V tap (green) and lp3/pin2 goes to the transformer 0V tap (yellow). Then you should have 100VAC between the two regardless in which state the machine is.

2) Which is the scan switch and the photo from the previous message, the relay M1, is it closed?

The scan switch is located at the carriage base. Maybe varnhagen or some other NSM expert can explain you better how to access it.
The motor relay contacts look somehow misaligned, but I can`t tell you if this is a problem.

Rgds...Jürgen

hello jürgen02

The wiring diagram is correct

lp2/pin 2 green to 110 volts lp3/pin 2 0 volts but there is no 110 volts on it

Can I also measure the AC voltage from the transformer, so measuring the 2 green wires and the yellow one?

regards



1 mal bearbeitet. Zuletzt am 14.03.26 12:47.

Can I also measure the AC voltage from the transformer, so measuring the 2 green wires and the yellow one?

The transformer taps are 0V/yellow, 80V/violet, 100V/green, 110V/grey
0/80V is for the motor in play mode
0/100V for the motor in transfer mode and for the clutch solenoid
0/110V is for the voltage doubler

Since your motor is running (maybe on 80V?) and the voltage doubler is also working (confirmed by the 150V DC) , I think your problem is somewhere along the green wire coming from the transformer to LP2.
Check if there are any solder joints or connections in between, you can of course measure at any point along the wire. On the wiring diagram it looks like it goes straight to lp2/2 but it may be done differently in the "real world".

Rgds..Jürgen

Hello jürgen02

I am currently measuring the transformer

I come across this, a real mess

I really don't know anything about this, but I know this isn't right

Could you tell me which wire goes to which connection on the transformer

now gray transformer wire 30 volts goes to LP3 / pin 3

the black one to LP2 / pin 2
the red and black one, I think from 110 volts, goes to LP3 / pin 2

then there is a red and brown wire, brown goes to LP2 / pin 1

Regards



1 mal bearbeitet. Zuletzt am 14.03.26 16:42.

I can only identify the 30V red (rt) and 0V black (bl) wires going correctly to the bridge rectifier on top.
There is almost a short circuit at the pins of the rectifier but this is not related to your problem.

The wires you need to identify are 0V yellow (ge), 80V violet (vio), 100V green (gn) and 110V grey (gr).
The colors printed on the transformer correspond to the colors on the schematic.

Sorry, thats all I can see. Looks like the transformer was replaced but it wasn`t not done very professional. A pair of yellow wires is soldered together but not isolated !

Rgds..Jürgen

hello jürgen 02

so there is quite a lot wrong here

The yellow wire where your red arrow is pointing is gray, and that soldered wire comes out of the black wire lying on top of it.

how can I measure which wire has how much voltage

can I measure this at the transformer

can I measure a wire one by one

and how do I put the pin of the multimeter on? I don't have a yellow wire

I also have a photo of the side of the transformer, can't you make sense of that either



2 mal bearbeitet. Zuletzt am 14.03.26 18:43.

"I also have a photo of the side of the transformer, can't you make sense of that either"

No sorry, some wires were cut near the transformer and isolation tubes are covering the original color of the wire or even a different color wire was used. Note that the order of the wires coming out of the transformer does not correspond to the order printed on the transformer label.

Can't you follow each wire from the pins on LP2 and LP3 to the transformer ?
LP3/2 yellow? 0
LP2/1 violet? 80V
LP2/2 green? 100V
LP3/1 grey? 110V

Measure again all 3 voltages first at the LP2 and LP3 pins. Put one probe always to LP3/2 (0V)
With the other probe, check the 3 voltages at the other pins. If the 100V is still missing on LP2/2, follow the wire and measure at the transformer. You need a "needle probe" to stitch into the isolation or remove the isolation tube and measure at the solder joint.

Before powering up, make sure you bend back the pin of the white bridge rectifier so that there is no short circuit.

Rgds..Jürgen

Hi,

I think Jürgens Suggestion is perfect to identify the problem.
I attached a picture for you how the wiring was done back in the 70th.
But you can’t spot the wire color there either because they wrapt the wires in heat resistant fabric.
I think that was on purpose, and may be a problem in your box while missing.

Is there any chance, that you can test your carriage in an other working box?
Then it would be possible to sort the carriage and the solenoid completely out and concentrate on the powersupply.

If you are planning to go skiing in Winterberg next weekend you can stop here and we can test your carriage.
I live 5 min from the autobahn where everybody comes thru while heading to Winterberg.

Hello

jürgen02 and christiaan

All the wires running from the transformer to the circuit board are brittle, hard, and torn; I need to replace these first.

Capacitor C8 has blown.

Which wire should I use for the transformer? Which thickness? 0.35 mm?

There is a lot of tinkering in this jukebox.

Regards, dj

Hi,

While you are at it, replace all the electrolytic capacitors in the power supply.
The are gone after 50years…

I don’t know which wire size to use.
I did not replace any until now.

Kind regards
Christian

hello
christian and jürgen02
I am going to order all the capacitors and wire tomorrow
I will keep you posted as soon as I can test again
and hope everything starts running

regards dj

The 15uF 450V is a little bit complicated to get in the axial type.
But you can get this one here at stamanns [www.jukebox-world.de]
And they have also a complete powersupply for sale.
Maybe it’s worth it to get a second one, because yours seems to be a little bit messed up.
[www.jukebox-world.de]

Hello everyone

I have now replaced all the electrolytic capacitors.

I connected everything properly, plugged it into the power, and the C8 electrolytic capacitor exploded.

I am at a loss.

What could be the cause of this?

Regards

Check D10/D12. No fuse on LP3?
Rgds..Jürgen

Hallo Jürgen,

There is no fuse in it


The diode was tested in one direction OL, the other direction in both: 0.521 volts


Does anyone have an idea where I should look now? What the problem is?

kind regards



3 mal bearbeitet. Zuletzt am 24.03.26 18:58.

450V rated cap ? Soldered in with the correct polarity ?
Maybe previous one was already wrong - see picture here: [forum.jukebox-world.de]

Hello Jürgen

I soldered the capacitor correctly; it is a 15µF 450 volt

I am sending a photo along now

the control unit is 41475 the amplifier is a 70s BB

I really have no idea what is wrong and what I can still do about it

Kind regards

Can`t see much on this picture. Upper Diode looks strange.
Any shorts underneath the metal filter housing (silver box) ?
Have you renewed the wiring to the transformer and measured the voltages again ?
Other than that I have no more ideas.

Rgds..Jürgen

hello jürgen there hasn't been a short circuit looks a bit strange is because the C8 capacitor has blown the diode also looks strange because it was unsoldered before measuring and measuring isn't working because the capacitor is popping but can you actually measure if the capacitor pops?

It`s just a voltage doubler. 110V AC input, 300V DC output.
Check all components again: Diodes, Resistors, Caps and PCB tracks.
Rgds..Jürgen

Hello Jürgen

I have eaten a lot and now it turns out that resistors R15 and R16 are too low, not 1 m ohm

I have Zener diode ZL150 in both directions OL

Is this the cause of C8 blowing

Do you know where I can buy Zener diode ZL150

Regards

An open zener diode cannot blow C8. A bit lower value R15/R16 is also not a problem. Change all 6 components to new ones and check the wiring on the board, then it must work.
ZX150 is a suitable replacement but also not easy to find. Check the polarity, Diodes in this package are available with Anode to stud and Cathode to stud.
Your unit seems to have many problems, the question is if it makes sense to continue or better find a working unit as Christian suggested.
Rgds..Jürgen

Hallo dj

Ich habe kistenweise gebrauchte NSM Ersatzteile für die Modelle mit Tormat ("A, B und C Technik"), darunter auch einge Zentralen. Diese sind überholt und getestet!

Bei interesse kannst du mich gerne kontaktieren.

Gruß
Roland

Hello Jürgen and fellow forum members

I replaced the 6 components; there are too many problems with them now, and the 2 amp fuse keeps blowing.
I could keep working on this forever, so maybe it would be wise to buy a good control unit.

And yet, the question remains: if I use a working control unit, will there not be even more problems?

I need to take a good look at what I want to do.

Thanks for everything and the responses here on the forum.

Regards, DJ

hello empress200

How much does a control unit cost

and is it worth the effort for me to have it fixed

after all, I don't know what else is wrong with the box

Hi DJ,

We don‘t know much about your box.
Apart from the really messed up control unit.
Maybe you can show us some pictures and tell a little bit more about it.
In general all these old jukeboxes need a complete makeover.
Every capacitor has to be replaced (70pcs in the 70s amp…) the complete mechanic needs to be cleaned and oiled…
It’s a question of what you are willing to invest in terms of time and money.

Until now I restored two NSMs.
One consul 160b and a prestige 120bb.
Each one needed roughly 500€ invest in spare parts (I bought the amps freshly repaired from guys in this forum)
And it took me about 200h each to clean and restore every part of the box.

But after that you will have a great box where you can fix everything by yourself and will have much fun over the years…

If you don’t have the time and the patience to restore it yourself you can look for a box which was recently rebuild.
But that would cost you some money and is half the fun.
Here are some guys who sell complete boxes. Ronny for example.
or you can visit the jukebox market in Rosmalen on may 10th this year and buy a complete box.

Kind regards
Christian



1 mal bearbeitet. Zuletzt am 30.03.26 17:35.

Hello Christian,

I bought the jukebox from people who had it sitting in the garage for a year; before that it worked, and now it suddenly is.

They had a mechanic look at it, hence the manuals that came with it when I bought it.

The seller told me that only the solenoid needed replacing and then it would play again.

At my home, it turned out the 2 amp fuse was broken; I put a new one in, it selected, and I got power on the control center. The rest is written here.

As for my time and patience, I certainly have it.

I really hope I can get it working again.

So far, it is going into a different fault, which I don't understand after replacing new components.

I'll add a few photos in a bit.

Mechanical is no problem for me, only schematics and electrical components require a bit of knowledge.

Regards

Hi DJ,

I think you have a very beautiful box there.
Some people don’t love the consul but I like it so much, that I have two of them.

So if you ask me, I would advise you to restore it.
But your control unit seems to be very messed up.
If the price of Roland’s repaired unit is okay for you I would buy it.

If that is to expensive for you give the one from stamanns a try.
Maybe they’ll sell it to you if you write them an email.
They will close the online shop for the summer but often they will reply to mails.

Or wait six weeks and search on the jukebox flea market in Rosmalen on may 10th.

Kind regards
Christian

Hello Christian

Yes, it is indeed a nice jukebox. I hope to find a good control unit, and yes, I am familiar with Jukeboxfanaat Rosmalen.

About 25 years ago I bought a Rockola, a little ice pick, but sold it again due to circumstances.

But you think that with a different control unit, everything is solved.

Now the 2 amp fuse keeps blowing. What could be the cause of that?

Regards

Hi DJ,

I don't have a magic eye to see if the control unit is your only problem.
But there seem to be one of the main issues.
There are many other things which could be broken or need to be fixed.

But with a warming control unit you have a clear start to figure out everything else.

Kr
Christian

Hallo dj

Ich habe dir eine Privatnachricht geschickt.

Gruß
Roland