Rowe AMI MM6 Bourbon Street

Hallo Jukebox Freunde,

Letztendlich habe Ich Platz fuer einen Jukebox,
und habe auch einen gefunden : Rowe AMI MM6 Boubon Street.
225 Euro : ist das OK ?
Leider ist der erste Trafo (vom Junction Box) kaputt.

Habe Ich irgendwo gefunden (hoffe Ich), sollte in der Post sein.

Mittlerweile kupple Ich etwas aus Aluminium, mit viel Drahten, ab,
ein Remote Volume Control oder so wass.

Und Ich sehe das ein Ding mit 2 Trafos (Output Transformer Assembly) lose auf den Boden steht.

Ich habe die Service Manuals (MM5 + MM6 Supplement),
das sind aber leider Kopieen,
und die Bilder zeigen gar nicht wo das eigentlich verbaut sein sollte.

Kann jemand vielleicht ein Foto schicken von ein solches Ding, verbaut in eninen MM6, MM, oder vielleicht auch frueheres Modell ?

Ich danke im Voraus !
Gruesse,
Jan (Belgien)



1 mal bearbeitet. Zuletzt am 16.01.11 21:42.

Hello everybody,

This is a juke box collector from ITALY in need to buy VCR Varistors for the Control Unit of my 2 NSM Satellite juke boxes.
Anybody can sell them to me, or even the Control Unit at a reasonable price?
Please, contact : corbaldi@hotmail.com

Regards

Hello Jan,

Did you manage to get the power supply or was it just a 220 volt to 110 volt step down transformer you wanted.

With regards to the price you paid for the jukebox I would say that is a fair price, there can not be many of this model around certainly in Europe.

The jukebox was produced in 1972, the MM-6 Superstar had four different models;-

Lavender Ladies, Bourbon Street, Silver Sage and Monterey.
As well as the front panels being different the top speaker grills had different patterns and the keyboard surround came in different colours.

I do not have a MM-6 manual but the MM-5 Presidential Line is vertually the same jukebox.
If your amplifier is the 50 watt 601-04359 then the output package is on the amplifier.
If your amplifier was the 100 watt 601-03760 then the output package must have been located between the amplifier and the mechanism (carousel) because there is no other place to put it.
The pre-amplifier is located below the 110 volt power supply.

Regards
Alan Hood
ami-man
UK
alan-hood@datex.co.uk

Hi Alan,

That is good news for me !
Somebody (apparently) who can rescue me ! (or my jukebox)

In the meantime, I did the following :

1. I did not quite trust the 220V to 115V transformer :
there must be a reason for the failure of the original AMI-ROWE 115V transformer.
So I replaced it by one I had lying about somewhere.

2. I found a transformer (the whole power supply) for an MM1.
I was told that one was OK, so I mounted it.

3. Then the following happened :
A single was placed on the turntable, and reshelved immediately.
This happend about 3 times in a row.
Then all was quiet ...

4. I inserted a coin, it was accepted, and "selection" was lighted on the panel.
But no selections could be made, the buttons do not "stick"

5. I inserted a second coin, it was accepted, and "extended selection" was lighted.
Again, nothing "sticks".

6. The service control center allows me to rotate the whole lot of singles,
when selecting "on" again there, it the adjusts itself correctly to the single nearby its current position

So, if you could help with the following ...

A. The amplifier lying about consist of a quite large frame (rectangular, more shallow than square),
containg twice the same set of parts: that means : 2 large transformers, and so on.
Do you have a photograph of such an amplifier fitted in an MM5 or MM6 ?
I would like to fit it where it belongs, but I cannot find threaded holes or mountings corresponding to the amplifier.
The amplifier is not a non-original part : I find it depicted in the service manual.

B. The power supply transformer seems to deliver all non-115V connections to a brown plug with 6 wires.
Can you indicate between which wires I should find what voltage ? AC or DC ?

C. Could you indicate what I should check and/or do to make the selection buttons "stick" ?
(please, if you mention a component, could you indicate where it is located in the jukebox)

There now remains to thank you in advance ...
Without help I will not be able to do much :
this is the first jukebox I have ever had to deal with (apart from pushing buttons 40 years ago)
and I have a mechanical background.
But my father (now 90 years old) repaired radios and TVs,
so I know how to measure voltages, I can resolder something, and so on ...

Tomorrow I will have some time to check things and report back to you.

Greetings from Belgium,
Jan

Should you want to send photos : jan <point> deklerck <at> yahoo <point> com

Hello Jan,

I will bring my camera in on Monday and take shots of the 50 watt 4369 amplifier chassis and the 110 volt power supply for you.

With regards to the power supply here are the connections:-

Pin 1. 30 volts DC Red
Pin 2. 30 volts AC White
Pin 3. Ground Black
Pin 4. Ground Green
Pin 5. 6 volts AC Yellow
Pin 6. Ground Black

The plug that goes into the molex socket on the power supply has the following colors:-

Pin 1. White/Red
Pin 2. Yellow/Black
Pin 3. Blaclk
Pin 4. No Connection
Pin 5. Yellow/Green
Pin 6. Black

You will find the credit unit (sometimes called a credit clock) behind the service switch housing, you can turn this manually clockwise to put on more credit.
Once you have credit the latch bar solenoid should energize, this locks the selection buttons. The solenoid works on 30 volts AC likewise the search unit motor, check out your wiring diagram but the motor and solenoid are both grounded through the normally closed connections (7 & 8) of R1 (and 2 & 1 R5 on the search unit motor)

The amplifier is fitted to an amplifier plate below the service switch.

I would check those voltages on the power supply, the 30 volt AC and DC go through the service switch to the the mechanism molex plug.
With the service switch in the play position you can check that the voltages are pressent at the mechanism molex plug.

Pin 1. Red
Pin 2 Yellow
Pin 3. Black
Pin 4. Orange
Pin 5. White/Green
Pin 6. No Connection
Pin 7. Orange/Brown
Pin 8. No Connection
Pin 9. Red linked to pin 1

If you send me pictures of your jukebox showing shots of the amplifier and other parts I will check out if they are correct for you.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK
alan-hood@datex.co.uk

Hi Alan,

So, if I understand well :
On the power supplu :
30V DC between 1 and 3
30V AC between 2 and 3
6V AC between 5 and 6

I will measure that tomorrow.
(not at home now)

And on the mechanism molex plug I then have :
where are the voltages to be found then ? Pin 3 Black is ground ?

I will also make a few photographs tomorrow.

Regards,
Jan

Hi Alan,

You apparently have in-depth knowledge of the MM6.
I have to learn everything ...

Would it be possible to give me step-by-step assistance to bring back all functions ?

Current situation :
- coins are correctly accepted or rejected
- but without any noticeable effect
- turning the spider-like thing under the clear plastic cover (attached high up on the left wall) results in lights showing : credit, extended credit
- but the selection buttons do not "stick"
- the service center allows me to rotate the whole bunch of singles
- power supply voltages seem to be OK (a bit on the low side)
- no lights at all, no TL's

So, could you please start me in 2 directions :
- main voltage operated items : what can I check/do to light the TL's (are these normal of-the shelf TL's ?)
- jukebox itself : what can I check to find out why an accepted coin does not result in a rotation of the "spider",
and why a manual rotation does not result in "sticking" selection buttons ?

Your help is greatly appreciated ...
I have something organized end of june, and the jukebox is planned to be part of that ...
if at all possible !

Regards,
Jan

Hello Jan,

I think you still have power supply problems, most of those metal plate rectifiers are now breaking down.
If you have got credit then the latch bar solenoid on the keyboard should energize, so the buttons can lock on a selection.

What do mean by TL's?

You may have a fault on the credit unit or the wiring between the coin fingers and the credit unit (credit clock)

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

Hello Jan,

I don't think you have a power supply problem. The magazine would not rotate, if the AC or DC voltage is missing.

The not registered coins can have different causes. In the credit unit is a fuse (0,6A), which can be burnt. The service switch can be in position OFF, it should be ON. The coin switches can be dirty, badly adjusted or simply disconnected. Above the service switch is a double rotary switch. Possibly he is in an undefined position or has bad contact. That can also cause that the Latch Solenoid doesn't pull in.

The wiper in the credit unit completes a circuit (over the rotary switch) to the Pulse and Latch Relay R1 on the keyboard (I think, it's the left one). R1 energizes the Latch Solenoid. Possibly the contact blades on R1 are dirty

Fluorescent lamps are the same for 115 or 230 volts. Ballasts and starters are different. Look here for more Information [www.jukebox-world.de] . The original ballasts are for 115 V, but possibly they are changed to 230 V. The voltage should be printed on the housing.

@Alan: TL means Tubular Lamp. The expression is used by some producers for fluorescent lamps.

Best regards - charly49



2 mal bearbeitet. Zuletzt am 10.02.11 09:32.

Hi Charly 49,

Thanks for your help !

So, if I understand well, if I can energize the latch solenoid, there is a chance I can play records.
The next question therefore is : what voltage does it need (how much, AC or DC).

If powering the latch solenoid directly off the power supply has some effect, then I can try energizing the R1 relay.
Again : what voltage does it need (how much, AC or DC).

If that is powering the latch solenoid correctly, then I have to find out why it does not operate when turning the credit unit wiper manually.

That way I check the credit unit upstream.

Checking downstream means I have to check why coins do not operate the credit unit wiper.
You mention coin switches : I guess they also have to complete a circuit :
1. What wire in the power supply unit (color, or position in a connector) can I use to power this circuit directly from the power supply ?
2. If I attach a Voltmeter to the circuit :
a. On what wire in the power supply unit (color, or position in a connector) should I put the second clamp of the Voltmeter ?
b. What voltage should I measure then (how much, AC or DC).

OK, then the service center.
I am sure I positioned the switch to ON.
I will check in detail the operation of the double rotary switch after checking all the above ...

About the TL's : the whole jukebox operates on 115V, through an additional transformer, feeding the power supply.
So : ballasts and starters will be 115 Volt, but TL's are the same for 220V and 115V ?
TL's then are easy to buy, I will try new ones first.
If to no avail, I guess I can buy 115V starters from a jukebox spareparts dealer, these will not be expensive.
Starters usually are tough, I do not expect these to be broken.

Unless of course someone connected the jukebox to 220V directly, without the 220V-115V transformer ...
That would be a disaster ... What should I have a look at first, to detect that ? In other words, what will show most clearly all signs of being burnt out ?

Again :
Thanks for helping me out !

This weekend I should find time to give it a go.
Apparently, that is what it will need most in its current condition : time !

Regards,
Jan

Hello Jan,

you have a service manual, and now you should learn to use it. There is a chapter "sequence of operation", that describes step by step, which parts of the different circuits are needed for each step. For your current problem you should look at page 11 (#2 - customer inserts quarter). You see, circuit goes from 30VDC to the service switch, along to the Credit Coil, to the 0,6A fuse, to the adjustable Credit Stop Coil and then to the Price setting switch #3, to the coin switch and finally to common. The MM5 had the rotary switch as price setting switch. I think, early MM6 had a rotary switch, too. Later MM6 had three slide switches.

On page 12 (#3 - Credit Established) are three different circuits. The first is for the credit light. The circuit goes from 6VAC to the credit light, to the Price Setting Switch #1, to the Credit Unit wiper and then to Common. The second circuit is to energize R1. It goes from 30VDC to the Service Switch, to the Credit Unit wiper and along to the Price Setting switch #2 and to the Coil of R1. From there it goes through all Letter Pushbutton Switches, along to S2 (the left relay with the long lever in the Search Unit in front of the mechanism) and then to Common. The third circuit energizes the Latch Solenoid. It goes from 30VAC to the Service Switch, along to R1, to the Latch Solenoid and to Common.

The numbers inside the different signs identifies the pin numbers on the different connectors. This will help you to follow the circuit. The letters next to the lines designates the wire colors. The negative test lead of the multimeter comes on Common. You can connect it to any black wire, these are all common. With the positive test lead you can follow the circuit from point to point, beginning at 30VAC or 30VDC.

If the jukebox was connected directly to 230 volts without step down transformer, the fluorescent lamps are probably burnt out. The parts of the credit and selection system and of the mechanism should not be demaged, but some parts in the amplifier (tubes or transistors, capacitors) can be destroyed.

Best regards - charly49

Hi Charly 49,

You are really helping me out !
Having no electrical background, this "sequence of operation" was rather puzzling to me.
It now may even have become understandable !

Thanks !
I will try to spend a few hours with (or half inside) the MM6 in the weekend.

Regards,
Jan

Good, actions and progress so far :

I checked the TL's.
They are connected to 115V, the trafo on them is for 115V, but the starters are for 220 V.
I can now choose : new ballasts for 220V (readily obtainable, I may even have some lying about), or buy 115V starters.
I prefer the latter, leaving the jukebox as original as possible.

I removed the coin acceptor, behind it is a small apparatus with triggers, each closing a contact.
Only one type of coin (old style Belgian 5 Francs) is accepted, and the trigger corresponding to that doesn't do anything.
(Earlier, however, inserting 5Fr coins worked, maybe disconnecting the wall box leaves a circuit permanently open now ?)
But the good news is : the right trigger (a shorter one) made the Credit Unit wiper rotate.
So, in order to move ahead, I connected the wire of that trigger to the 5Fr trigger.
Now inserting 5Fr coins activates the Credit Unit, and by using the 3 sliders on the Control Center, I have some control over what is happening when inserting more than one coin.

On the credit unit are a whole lot of numbered threaded holes, with a screw in nr 2.
I moved that screw to nr 3, and now each coin gives 3 credits instead of 2.
So far so good.

I dismounted the Credit Unit to check it, and found out that all copper surface circuits were completely blackened.
I cleaned them lightly with 1000 grade carborundum paper, and then with alcohol, they are shiny now.
By then I was feeling confident that everything might be OK now, because I could not believe the credit unit had been able to pass current to anywhere in such a blackened condition.
Unfortunately : no result (apart from "selection" and then "extended selection" lights showing).

I am now trying to find out where the Latch Relay is, and the others you mention.
I guess these are behind the selector buttons.
Everything being so easily removable, I am now completely puzzled while trying to find out how to make these things accessible. There are no latches or hinges or anything. Do you have any idea how to open up that top assemby ?
Everything is so fragile in that region ! Even the cable clamps are so brittle, they seem to break when you look at them !
If you would know how to open up that assembly, I can go on working on it tomorrow.

Thanks again for your help !
Regards,
Jan

Hello Jan,

the parts behind the keyboard are very easy accessible. The whole keyboard (with the colored frame) is simply to pull out. If you pull it out far enough, it tilts down a little, to get better access. You can take it out completely, if you remove the rectangular connector behind the keyboard and the edge connector from the search unit (in front of the mechanism)

Best regards - charly49

I got the top unit out, once you know how, it is rather straightforward.
The molex plugs however are not all that easy to come by, to detach them.

There is a large solenoid visible now, which must surely be the latch solenoid.
I was immovable, seemed to be welded to a support plate.

The welding eventually appeared to be a rubber buffer that degraded to some kind of powerful glue.
Some gentle force pried the parts apart.
Now if I move the solenoid coil by hand, the selection buttons "stick".
I trust they will do so electrically when I replace the top unit.
I will use a piece of cork to replace the current degraded buffer.

Maybe we're almost there ...

Now catch a bit of sleep, 2 AM is not too early for that !

Looking in the MM-5 manual, I was wondering ...
Have they really ever sold MM-5's with an illuminated nude lady on the front panel ?
Nowedays that would stir quite some row in the US, I would think ???

As mentioned above :
The TL's are connected to 115V, the trafo on them is for 115V, but the starters are for 220 V.
At least, that is what is mentioned on them.
But they are "Philips S2" : they are meant for use with 2 lamps in series, which means that they are meant to operate between 100-150 Volt.
(see : [www.lampco.co.uk] :
REF: ST-S2 : 4-22W SINGLE@110V SERIES@240V - S2 STARTER )
That should be allright then ?
But none of them starts ...

Hello Jan

the starters seems to be right for the short tubes, but you can't see, it they are working okay. For the long tubes they will probably not work. You need a FS-25 for them [ssl.kundenserver.de]

It is easy to check, if the lamps are burnt (because the jukebox was connected to 230 volts without step down transformer). The lamp has two pins on each end. This are the connections to the filaments and there should be low resistance from one pin to the other. If one of the filaments is interrupted, the lamp is dead.

You can also check the ballast, the wiring and the lamp with one simple trick. You remove the starter and short circuit the contacts in the starter holder. The filaments on the ends of the tube should now glow and when you remove the short circuit, the lamp should light up. If this works in such a way, you need only a suitable starter.

The lamp will not be available in any electro shop, because they have special length. You can get it here in the shop. [ssl.kundenserver.de] and [ssl.kundenserver.de]

Best regards - charly49

Disappointment ...
The latch solenoid now moves freely,
I made a new puffer out of cork to replace the gluey old rubber one,
but ...
The Credit Unit does not operate the latch solenoid ...
So : more work ahead !

Hello Jan

The credit unit does not operate the latch solenoid directly. The credit unit operates R1 (Select Pulse And Latch Relay, I think it's the left relay behind the keyboard) and this relay should energize the latch solenoid. The latch solenoid must pull in, if you operate R1 by hand. If it does not, then either the contacts on R1 or the service switch does not make a correct connection or the latch solenoid is interrupted. There are no further parts in the circuit, naturally except the wires and connectors.

Best regards - charly49

Hello Jan,

Did you say that you had the MM5 manual?
If that is the case look at page 3-25 in the manual it shows a full circuit drawing of the jukebox.

The latch bar solenoid works off of 30 volts AC and is switched by the R1 contacts 7 & 8 as charly49 says.
It is one of the relays under the plastic cover on the keyboard assembly the other relay is R5.
I suggest that you clean the open contacts on these relays with a paper taper pulled between the contacts, this will hone the surface of the contacts without damaging them.

I noted on your cleaning of the credit unit circuit board, you would have done better by cleaning this with a pencil rubber (eraser) and then a lint free cloth, if you need to clean the search unit pcb or the stop plate rings, I suggest you use this method.

Please let us know how you get on.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK