Rockola 1448 Some Selections don't work

Hello again, I got a jukebox with attitude.... money is taken but no plays on several numbers.

Some selections don't work, when i press the button i hear a click a credit is taken, that's it.

It's by Selection 24, 61, 77, 101, 103, 118, 120.

And some selections give a different number when i choose selection
61 it plays 45.
117 it plays 57
115 it plays 55

I sprayed the jones stekker with contactspray, the contacts in the door (under the selection buttons) looks clear.(see pictures)

Where should i find the error?

As i bought it it was partially restaured, i think it's a contactproblem something like that.

Is it the button selector in the door (just below the buttons)? or something else?


Anybody got an answer please?

Hi !

First : This is a typical Selector Problem!
Here is your solution for your first Problem:

[www.jukebox-world.de]

It`s not exactly the same selector , but nearby and the work is the same!
Look to the pdf File!

Second problem is related to your microswitsches (4) mounted on the left side
of the revolving drum. One or mor switches are bad or not correct adjusted!

Kind regards Klaus

Thanx Klaus for replying, i was afraid of something like that, that's a delicate job, the selector i think, getting wet hands as i type.

I will sure look at it, and if i dare i' ll take the selector out.

First i will look at the pdf really good, to make sure i'm doing it right.


I will try to locate the 4 micro switches & order new ones.


Greetz

Does anybody has photos where these microswitches are located, left side of revolving drum they say...

It would sure help if i can see where they are, then it would be easier for me.

Is it accessable by opening the front or backdoor ? cause i'm not such a hero to disassemble my 14448.

In the meantime i will search this forum for pictures of the inside of simular jukeboxes.

Tnx in advance.

Hello uncels

I think, you should buy a service manual. [ssl.kundenserver.de] . It is available in German or English. The complete schematic must be ordered extra.

The manual contains pictures and wiring diagrams of the related parts. It also contains adjustment instructions and a description of the parts and sequences of operation.

The microswitches are located near the motor for the program drum, I think, there are two switches for the selection system and one, which inhibits the rotation of the drum, as long as the lower front door is not closed completely. If microswitch #1 is pressed, selections 1 - 40 can be made. If microswitch #2 is pressed, selections 41 - 80 can be made. If both or none switch is pressed, selections 81 - 120 can be made.

Greetings from Austria - charly49

Hi again !

There are 4 microswitches on the left side of the title drum for the
selections and one for the title drum (most left!9
See the picture (was made before restauration !)

Regards Klaus

Tnx Klaus & Charly 49, with your help i did locate these switches & it seems they are working well.

To make sure i have to disassemble this part & measure the contacts i guess.

These switches are BZ-2R ? i found them in catalog here.

My picture as it is now. (couldn't get it sharper with this camera)

Greetz uncels

i have a manual ordered it last year by www.Jukebox-revival.nl, i will look in it if i can find what i am looking for.

Greetz uncels



2 mal bearbeitet. Zuletzt am 16.03.10 13:29.

Hi again !

That´s interesting , because in your box is the microswitch for the
the title drum missing.

The switches are available here in the shop:

[ssl.kundenserver.de]

Measuring is not in any case perfect , because in my 1454 all switches were
perfect with the multimeter , but in function , two of them have had intermittend problems.

Swap the switches and your will have no problems for a long , long time!

Regards Klaus

Klaus, if that will solve my problems, that's what i do, I Change all 4 at once, for new ones.

Do i need to adjust something afterwards ? or just screw it back together?



You guys always are trying to help people out, i posted several simular questions on a jukebox forum in the netherlands, where i am from, many people read it, but an answer or help NO WAY....
I'll stay loyal to this forum as long as i'm a jukebox owner.

So to all the helpfull germans a big THANX specially to: Klaus, Oliver, Hildegard, B&K, Charly49 & those who i forgot to mention.

Greetz uncels.

Last picture i made from my 1448.



1 mal bearbeitet. Zuletzt am 22.03.10 18:52.

Gentlemen, i have the same problem again ....... 101 -120 refuse to work, it picks 41-60

All other selections work.
Last year i changed all 4 microswitches & it worked back then.
After a long time we had a party & these selections wont work, i already tried to adjust the microswitches, but no result.
I can hear the clicks, seperately from the others.

Does anyone know the solution please?

Greetz uncels.

Hello uncels,

this is a very strange problem, because #101 - 120 belongs to the second Group of pushbuttons, while #41 - 60 belongs to the first group. Both groups are fully independently, as you can see in the schematic. Therefore the malfunction cannot be caused by the microswitches. The malfunction can also not be caused by the button bank, because the other groups work properly. The only reason I can imagine is, that you swapped the wires to to clappercoils, when you installed the new micro switches. If so, #101 will be played, if you select #41and it must have been like that, since you changed the switches.

Best regards - charly49

Hi Charly, tnx for you' re answer;

I checked the wires, they all are properly mounted.

I just have been pressing a number of selections up to 15 times the same & guess what, some work, even 119 responded right.
Not all but most did responded right after a number of repeating the same selection.

So it won't be the microswitches as you suggested.

Is this a problem i can solve properly, by cleaning something?
Or just keep pushing those buttons until it works properly again?

Looks like some got stuck because of it hasn' t been switched on all winter.

I' m always glad with an answer of those who know more then me..........

Another annoying problem is that small black stickers which are placed in the carroussel (to prevent scratches on the records)
come loose, some leave glue rests on records, others give scratches by getting double in caroussel, or get stuck on records.

Is it better to remove those? I did now by the ones which were loose.

Greetz uncels.

Hello uncels

I need some further information. Please describe exactly, what is played, if you select the following numbers: 1, 21, 41, 61, 81, 101 and 121. You should also observe whether the same (wrong) number is played each time, if you select a number several times.

Best regards - charly49

Ok Charly, when i write oke, the right selection is played.

1 = oke
21 = oke
41 = oke
61 = oke
81 = oke

101 plays 41 even at several times
103 plays 43 even at several times
105 = oke even at several times
107 plays 47 even at several times
119 = oke even at several times
121 = not on my machine (only up to 120)

Hope this gives you the information you need.

Tnx for you're time.

Hello uncels,

I'm sorry, but I do not have an idea, whereby this error could be caused. It cannot be because of the keyboard, because # 21 and #61 (the same button) are selected correctly. It also cannot be because of the drum microswitches and the clapper coils, because #105 and 119 and possibly some other numbers in this group (the same clapper coil) are also selected correctly. The strangest thing is that # 41 is correctly played, but when selecting #101 the same number #41 is played. I think, the error must be in the selector drum. Possibly a short-circuit is caused by damaged cables or somewhat like. Possibly there are two different errors.

Best regards - charly49

When checking those cables, i removed the back and when a wrong selection is played i heared a rattling sound coming from the orange box (believe its the powerunit)
Seeing small sparks coming from the rear of the box (sparks reflected in the coinbox)

i would say it could be a relais.

Hello uncels,

This is the power unit and inside is the Play Control Relay. It pulls in if any selection (not only a wrong) is registered and stays energized until the last selected record is played and putted back into the magazine. This relay cannot cause the error, it exists no connection with the selection system.

I don't know, if you have a service manual. If not, you should buy one [ssl.kundenserver.de] . It is available in German or in English. You will need also a schematic, because the manual contains only parts of the schematic [ssl.kundenserver.de] . You can examine the circuit of the selector with the help of the manual or the schematic. If you do not have sufficient knowledge in electronics, you should find someone, which has them.

Best regards - charly49

Yes charly i have a service manual, i think its best to get someone here, with a bit more knowledge of these things.

Tnx for you're answer.

Greetz uncels.

Hello uncels,

I think you have to look at the selector drum, as charly49 mentioned above. Especially the clapper coils need a great deal of attention in this case. Maybe there´s a short circuit by foreign particles (somebody has cleaned with wire-wool?!). Another possibility is a binding clapper-armature.

good luck!

Gruss
Helmut

Hello!
You wrote sometimes comes the right Selection from the 100 and up.
Your Problem I think is coming from the Micro-Switches in the Drum, because she are not
exact in Position, or you have Problems with the 12 Pin Socket or Plug, or with the 27 Pin Plug or Socket.
Mfg Willi!

Hello Uncle,

Just had a quick look at the schematic for my 1454 (the other 120 selection machine), and my initial thoughts are as follows First of all, this seems like a short circuit somewhere in the selection button array. The sparks you are seeing whenever the machine selects incorrectly are most likely from the contacts on the reset coil (not the start relay). The reset coil is energised every time a selection is made, and completes the circuits (plural) to both the selected clapper coil and the individual selection coil. Selection button #1 is wired in parallel with selection button #21. This means that when pressing selection button #1 or #21, the record selection coils #1, #21. #41, #61, #81, and #101 can be energised. Please note that I say can be energised, as the selection of which coil depends on which of the 6 clapper coils is energised. Which clapper coil is energised depends on the mico switches at the program unit, and the bank of selection buttons. The forty selection buttons are grouped into two banks of twenty buttons. Each bank of twenty buttons (switches) are connected parallel. There are therefore two wires comming from these two banks of twenty switches. Both wires go to the program unit, where they get directed to the appropriate clapper coil. One bank of twenty will be directed to clapper coil #1, #3, and #5, whereas the other bank of twenty switches is directed to clapper coils #2, #4, and #6. So far so good. Now for your problem: When selectinig for example record #41, the reset coil is activated. This supplies the DC power to selection coils #1, #21, #41, #61, #81, and #101. However, as only clapper coil #3 is energised, only selection coil #41 will be energised. For selection #101, the power is sent to the same individual selection coils, but now clapper coil #6 will be energised. Now this is where the fun starts. According to your fault description, 101, 103 and 105 select incorrectly, whereas the rest of the 100 series selects correctly. This would indicate that the correct clapper coil is energised. Strangely enough, 101 through to 120 use the same clapper coil. Therefore, for selection #101 to chose #41, a different clapper coil (#3 instead of #6) will need to be energised, which can only be done through the micro switches on the program selector. Since this is not moved (rotated), I find this very strange. I will have to look into this a bit further. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
Frank Wurpel (Scotland UK)

Hi Uncle,

Seems like this question needs a bit more thought. I have had a look at the schematics again, and there are a couple of things that puzzle me. The main thing, as also mentioned by someone else, is that the clapper coils that control the "faulty" selection are not on the same microswitch circuit?
Before getting into the details of this failure, here are some questions for you:

1. Has this machine ever selected correctly? This would rule out incorrect wiring connections
2. When selecting #101, it plays #41. Does it then also play #101? This could point to a faulty "hanging" clapper coil

Contrary to my previous e-mail, I have had a look, and since you identified the sparks coming from an orange box, it cannot be the reset coil as I initially thought. The reset coil and contacts are housed in another box. My 1454 does not have a coloured box, as all the boxes are gold anodyzed. The only contacts inside the power unit are on the start relay. The contacts on the start relay power the reset coil. Since all the selector buttons perform this same action, it is strange tthat only the incorrect selections create the sparks.

There has to be a logical explanation for your fault. Can you do me (and your elf) a favour, and do the followinig test: I would like to know the function of all 120 selections. Can you therefore test every button (1 to 120) and tell me which record is selected? I will also like to know if any selection selects two records. For example, if you select #2, will it play #2 and something else?

Normally I would get my multimeter out and test some connections, but as the machine is not here, and I do not know how competent you are with measuring in a live machine, we will need to go the more tedious route.

Let me know what you find,

Frank Wurpel
Scotland (UK)